I am one of the local clean energy organizers in my rural town. What I need are the pithy stories, like this one: “And so, to have this incredible opportunity where you could be one of five or 10 people who show up at a hearing, and if you're one of those five or 10 people and you win approval for a 400 megawatt onshore wind project and it displaces coal in the power system, those five or 10 people have the impact of something like 260,000 gas-powered cars coming off the road for a year.”
How can I share similar comparisons? I don’t know how to do the math. Can anyone help???
This is great! Reminds me of the study done by Loyola University in the Midwest this fall that found property values improved when clean energy projects were located nearby. Not only is Greenlight helping organize for the greater good, but these communities really will benefit from cutting through the anti-cleantech noise.
And I am so happy that you talked about the importance of using the race-class(-gender) narrative (RCGN) framework in combating fossil-fuel and other regressive-right forces.
It's hugely important to everything we are trying to accomplish for all of us to get comfortable using the RCGN framework.
If folks are not familiar with the RCGN framework, please check out the links in my pinned posts on Mastodon at https://mstdn.social/@joeinwynnewood.
People can (should) also bookmark the Freedom Over Fascism toolkit that implements the RCGN framework, https://bit.ly/FreedomOverFascism .
I hope this isn't the wrong place to do this, but I work with Solar United Neighbors, one of the partners Matt Traldi mentioned in this episode, and we are hiring for 4 new positions right now to help us do more of this solar siting work!
The comments from friends relatives and total strangers are parroting fossil fuel created talking points. I stand alone in my neighborhood on this topic. I hear the critiques mostly about how renewables are funded that funded money schemes are abused.
I find it hard to get a straight answer from supplies I’ve contacted. My questions attempt to understand what is achieved by the various approaches to solar and wind.
The numbers do not add up to sustainability.
More fossil fuel and carbon problems in the rendering by the effort? I never hear mainstream media talk about consumerism and the devastating reality of endless growth capitalism.
I hope we can read more
How to change hearts and minds?
How do you see the evolving constructs representing “The American Dream” and personal success?
I hear you on consumerism, i.e. the "demand" for energy and resources. But whatever folks want done to reduce that, energy supply will still need to "transition," and the world and country are not going to go on some energy starvation diet, and I don't think they need to. When you say solar and wind "numbers do not add up to sustainability," I think you are asking about emissions/energy payback. Maybe all the other resources?
NREL and others have done exhaustive analyses of the supply chains for wind and solar and gas and nuclear. In MI, typical emissions paybacks are 1-2 years for displacing fossil generation and adding up the emissions from the steel, aluminum, conctrete, glass, silicon, rare earths, copper, shipping & installation fuel, etc in wind and solar. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/88653.pdf
Bloomberg looked at all the resources for the energy transition and electrification. Steel for this represented 5%ish of current global steel over the next decades. Aluminum maybe a bit more. Copper is the biggest problem, but every time it gets in short supply folks figure ways to reduce its use (higher voltages), or substitute aluminum, or maybe some superconductors, maybe, or yes, expand some mine in the UP. Lots of older wind farms and solar farms where most material is kept and panels or nacelles and blades replaced. If one wants to be a purist about "sustainability" then no mineral extraction is truly "sustainable." What to do?
Remember the nuke power industry is an offshoot of the trillion dollar atomic bomb biz. Quite a few subsidies hidden in that 80 year effort.
I live in county with 25,000 gas wells. Lots of steel and grout and frac sand sunk a mile deep which will never be recycled. And our hunting and fishing is still pretty good, so if someone else gets a copper mine expansion, they'll survive.
My assessment is leaning toward personal responsibility and not relying on corporate mechanizms to transform the energy grid.
The days of organized society are collapsing,
in degrees most do not recognize.
Energy on a grid is an expensive luxury taken for granted, as the cost, pollution and waste have gone unnoticed, multiplied, as we consume complicit. I think the planet is in trouble as the norms of consumerism continue to take their toll.
We are deep in it now
and those profiting will have no concern. Good luck to you.
I love this pod. As our federal governments drop (or hide) the ball on climate action, real progress is happening at the local level where the consequences of climate inaction--ie unsafe communities--are also felt. I think there is an ethos of "why should we bother when we are so small?" Fortunately, that weak attitude is not stopping a lot of citizens and local governments from doing the right thing, and that is why we are getting massive deployment in the face of huge headwinds. The big argument that FF and its supporters use is that it is the end-users who are ultimately responsible for CO2 emissions, and so we can't live without FF. Well, actually, yes we can.
So glad for this interview. We are facing this exact problem on Long Island, NY, where towns are passing year long moratoriums on battery storage (BESS) before projects are even proposed. David Alicea, Green Light's Regional Campaign Manager for the Northeast, has done amazing work, letting our local chapter of Transition Town know when to attend Town of North Hempstead board meetings, helping us with talking points & press releases. The opposition is a small rabid group called "Protect our Coast LI" who go around quoting the Heartland institute & spreading misinformation about forced electrification, flying wind generator blades, dead whales, flaming BESS, you name it. They've called us "despicable" for wanting to make our town safer, cleaner, more resilient, & sustainable.
Unfortunately, we were not able to prevent the passage of the BESS moratorium, but we are planning our next moves to make sure the town puts the zoning & fire-fighter training in place that they claim to need in order to end the moratorium. Sadly, it's pitted us against some of the other more conservative environmental groups that we've worked with previously. Once again, divide & conquer is working for the FF industry, as an effective means of stopping progress on the local ground level where it ultimately needs to happen. We have gotten the attention of the LI paper, Newsday & we're open to any suggestions! https://www.newsday.com/opinion/editorials/battery-storage-bess-offshore-wind-solar-ijy7ye2r
Thank you. For some reason, I had not heard about Greenlight. Love it, though I think some tribal activist claims of "cultural resources" are overblown. But that's quibbling. I'm glad some progressives realize that there is no energy transition and reduced emissions and sustainable climate without "industrial" wind and solar.
Supporting this is actually "effective altruism" as opposed to the guy you had on a few years ago who thought wealthy folks should support far-fetched "climate tech."
"Climate" activists and advocates and technocrats and politicians need to get back in the habit of saying the names, of wind and solar, or else the playing field is ceded to the opposition, as it was during the presidential election. These are the technologies which are "bending the curve," leading to the recent plateau in worldwide emissions. The lack of new wind turbines in the USA has slowed our emissions reductions in the last few years.
One thing this interview misses is that there are shady developers out there and it only takes one bad experience to sour a community on future renewables projects. Not only that but word spreads. If your neighboring county got a bad deal that'll make you less enthusiastic about hosting a project.
What happens when the opposition to local small scale solar is the IBEW including its elected supporters on the utility board. Labor supports prevailing wage utility scale solar farms and puts its thumb on the scale to prevent community solar constructed with non union workers. I have run the numbers and we can not build community solar and pay prevailing wage. Nor do we get a subsidy for the added cost from the utility as roof and parking lot solar panels are disincentivized in the local energy rate structure. Sometimes a utility scale solar farm in important blue oak woodlands should not be built. Period. Not all utility scale clean energy is meritorious.
You guys know a lot. I have got a burning question. I would be great if you can answer it.
I live in The Netherlands. As most European countries my government is very pro environmental measures like electric cars wind and solar etc you get the picture. This results in spending enormous amounts of money. Now let's say human kind is responsible for rising of temperature. Now if all the countries in Europe reach their goal this would result in a reduction of 7,3% CO2 emissions. This is far too little. The rest of the world is hardly doing anything certainly with Trump coming into power because 'drill baby drill'.
My conclusion is thus the money spent is pearls before swine. Our country spends about 1 bilion. There are therefore much better things to spend the money on like helping the elderly research in medical treatments etc. I would like to hear your opinion.
It appears that you've omitted some relatively short-term direct benefits from your calculations. Solar & wind +storage battery development & maintenance costs are now so low, compared to fossil energy, that these investments can pay for themselves in less than a decade, and then continue producing for another decade or more, at a consistent cost to consumers. Meanwhile , fossil energy costs constantly trend up & fluctuate with supply & demand spikes that are exploited by energy market traders at consumers expense. And equally important, widely distributed renewable energy is characterized by neighborhood community micro grids that provide levels of reliability unattainable from our existing centralized utility generation & transmission model.
I am one of the local clean energy organizers in my rural town. What I need are the pithy stories, like this one: “And so, to have this incredible opportunity where you could be one of five or 10 people who show up at a hearing, and if you're one of those five or 10 people and you win approval for a 400 megawatt onshore wind project and it displaces coal in the power system, those five or 10 people have the impact of something like 260,000 gas-powered cars coming off the road for a year.”
How can I share similar comparisons? I don’t know how to do the math. Can anyone help???
It would be helpful for Greenlight to provide fact sheets on thermal energy networks (TENS) in its Local Resource Hub. Pretty please 🙏🏾
This is great! Reminds me of the study done by Loyola University in the Midwest this fall that found property values improved when clean energy projects were located nearby. Not only is Greenlight helping organize for the greater good, but these communities really will benefit from cutting through the anti-cleantech noise.
Another excellent podcast David.
And I am so happy that you talked about the importance of using the race-class(-gender) narrative (RCGN) framework in combating fossil-fuel and other regressive-right forces.
It's hugely important to everything we are trying to accomplish for all of us to get comfortable using the RCGN framework.
If folks are not familiar with the RCGN framework, please check out the links in my pinned posts on Mastodon at https://mstdn.social/@joeinwynnewood.
People can (should) also bookmark the Freedom Over Fascism toolkit that implements the RCGN framework, https://bit.ly/FreedomOverFascism .
I hope this isn't the wrong place to do this, but I work with Solar United Neighbors, one of the partners Matt Traldi mentioned in this episode, and we are hiring for 4 new positions right now to help us do more of this solar siting work!
https://my.career.place/static/jobs/rural-associates--remote-within-arizona--nevada--p-cm60yf6atgmxq0im8zd3ovmgn?source=referrals
In Michigan
The comments from friends relatives and total strangers are parroting fossil fuel created talking points. I stand alone in my neighborhood on this topic. I hear the critiques mostly about how renewables are funded that funded money schemes are abused.
I find it hard to get a straight answer from supplies I’ve contacted. My questions attempt to understand what is achieved by the various approaches to solar and wind.
The numbers do not add up to sustainability.
More fossil fuel and carbon problems in the rendering by the effort? I never hear mainstream media talk about consumerism and the devastating reality of endless growth capitalism.
I hope we can read more
How to change hearts and minds?
How do you see the evolving constructs representing “The American Dream” and personal success?
I hear you on consumerism, i.e. the "demand" for energy and resources. But whatever folks want done to reduce that, energy supply will still need to "transition," and the world and country are not going to go on some energy starvation diet, and I don't think they need to. When you say solar and wind "numbers do not add up to sustainability," I think you are asking about emissions/energy payback. Maybe all the other resources?
NREL and others have done exhaustive analyses of the supply chains for wind and solar and gas and nuclear. In MI, typical emissions paybacks are 1-2 years for displacing fossil generation and adding up the emissions from the steel, aluminum, conctrete, glass, silicon, rare earths, copper, shipping & installation fuel, etc in wind and solar. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/88653.pdf
Bloomberg looked at all the resources for the energy transition and electrification. Steel for this represented 5%ish of current global steel over the next decades. Aluminum maybe a bit more. Copper is the biggest problem, but every time it gets in short supply folks figure ways to reduce its use (higher voltages), or substitute aluminum, or maybe some superconductors, maybe, or yes, expand some mine in the UP. Lots of older wind farms and solar farms where most material is kept and panels or nacelles and blades replaced. If one wants to be a purist about "sustainability" then no mineral extraction is truly "sustainable." What to do?
Remember the nuke power industry is an offshoot of the trillion dollar atomic bomb biz. Quite a few subsidies hidden in that 80 year effort.
I live in county with 25,000 gas wells. Lots of steel and grout and frac sand sunk a mile deep which will never be recycled. And our hunting and fishing is still pretty good, so if someone else gets a copper mine expansion, they'll survive.
https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/life-cycle-assessment.html
My assessment is leaning toward personal responsibility and not relying on corporate mechanizms to transform the energy grid.
The days of organized society are collapsing,
in degrees most do not recognize.
Energy on a grid is an expensive luxury taken for granted, as the cost, pollution and waste have gone unnoticed, multiplied, as we consume complicit. I think the planet is in trouble as the norms of consumerism continue to take their toll.
We are deep in it now
and those profiting will have no concern. Good luck to you.
I love this pod. As our federal governments drop (or hide) the ball on climate action, real progress is happening at the local level where the consequences of climate inaction--ie unsafe communities--are also felt. I think there is an ethos of "why should we bother when we are so small?" Fortunately, that weak attitude is not stopping a lot of citizens and local governments from doing the right thing, and that is why we are getting massive deployment in the face of huge headwinds. The big argument that FF and its supporters use is that it is the end-users who are ultimately responsible for CO2 emissions, and so we can't live without FF. Well, actually, yes we can.
So glad for this interview. We are facing this exact problem on Long Island, NY, where towns are passing year long moratoriums on battery storage (BESS) before projects are even proposed. David Alicea, Green Light's Regional Campaign Manager for the Northeast, has done amazing work, letting our local chapter of Transition Town know when to attend Town of North Hempstead board meetings, helping us with talking points & press releases. The opposition is a small rabid group called "Protect our Coast LI" who go around quoting the Heartland institute & spreading misinformation about forced electrification, flying wind generator blades, dead whales, flaming BESS, you name it. They've called us "despicable" for wanting to make our town safer, cleaner, more resilient, & sustainable.
Unfortunately, we were not able to prevent the passage of the BESS moratorium, but we are planning our next moves to make sure the town puts the zoning & fire-fighter training in place that they claim to need in order to end the moratorium. Sadly, it's pitted us against some of the other more conservative environmental groups that we've worked with previously. Once again, divide & conquer is working for the FF industry, as an effective means of stopping progress on the local ground level where it ultimately needs to happen. We have gotten the attention of the LI paper, Newsday & we're open to any suggestions! https://www.newsday.com/opinion/editorials/battery-storage-bess-offshore-wind-solar-ijy7ye2r
Thank you. For some reason, I had not heard about Greenlight. Love it, though I think some tribal activist claims of "cultural resources" are overblown. But that's quibbling. I'm glad some progressives realize that there is no energy transition and reduced emissions and sustainable climate without "industrial" wind and solar.
Supporting this is actually "effective altruism" as opposed to the guy you had on a few years ago who thought wealthy folks should support far-fetched "climate tech."
"Climate" activists and advocates and technocrats and politicians need to get back in the habit of saying the names, of wind and solar, or else the playing field is ceded to the opposition, as it was during the presidential election. These are the technologies which are "bending the curve," leading to the recent plateau in worldwide emissions. The lack of new wind turbines in the USA has slowed our emissions reductions in the last few years.
One thing this interview misses is that there are shady developers out there and it only takes one bad experience to sour a community on future renewables projects. Not only that but word spreads. If your neighboring county got a bad deal that'll make you less enthusiastic about hosting a project.
What happens when the opposition to local small scale solar is the IBEW including its elected supporters on the utility board. Labor supports prevailing wage utility scale solar farms and puts its thumb on the scale to prevent community solar constructed with non union workers. I have run the numbers and we can not build community solar and pay prevailing wage. Nor do we get a subsidy for the added cost from the utility as roof and parking lot solar panels are disincentivized in the local energy rate structure. Sometimes a utility scale solar farm in important blue oak woodlands should not be built. Period. Not all utility scale clean energy is meritorious.
This and last week's podcast are not able to be played or downloaded on Pocket Casts
Have you tried loading the RSS feed for Volts into it?
https://www.volts.wtf/feed
The Pocket Cast links two these two episode is apparently resolved.
You guys know a lot. I have got a burning question. I would be great if you can answer it.
I live in The Netherlands. As most European countries my government is very pro environmental measures like electric cars wind and solar etc you get the picture. This results in spending enormous amounts of money. Now let's say human kind is responsible for rising of temperature. Now if all the countries in Europe reach their goal this would result in a reduction of 7,3% CO2 emissions. This is far too little. The rest of the world is hardly doing anything certainly with Trump coming into power because 'drill baby drill'.
My conclusion is thus the money spent is pearls before swine. Our country spends about 1 bilion. There are therefore much better things to spend the money on like helping the elderly research in medical treatments etc. I would like to hear your opinion.
It appears that you've omitted some relatively short-term direct benefits from your calculations. Solar & wind +storage battery development & maintenance costs are now so low, compared to fossil energy, that these investments can pay for themselves in less than a decade, and then continue producing for another decade or more, at a consistent cost to consumers. Meanwhile , fossil energy costs constantly trend up & fluctuate with supply & demand spikes that are exploited by energy market traders at consumers expense. And equally important, widely distributed renewable energy is characterized by neighborhood community micro grids that provide levels of reliability unattainable from our existing centralized utility generation & transmission model.