Gabe Klein of DOE’s Joint Office of Energy and Transportation talks us through new approaches to EV charging for people in multifamily residences in urban settings, including new business models, new technologies, and even new vehicles.
It's not true that the EV charging problem is solved in Europe. On the positive side, in The Netherlands at least, there are many curb side AC chargers and DC fast chargers and they lead uptake of EV's in Western EU. Also, financial incentives exist for Owners Associations (VvE's) for EV infrastructure implementation. The subsidy amount for initial independent site assessments is 75% of the consultancy costs (including VAT), with a maximum of € 1,500. It's only €100 subsidy per parking space for the owner of the parking space but better than nothing. On the negative side, the issue in my case, is being the first EV owner in an apartment block (of over 30 owners) and requiring the approval of a quorum to go ahead with installing EV ready infrastructure (the only way it would be cost effective rather than multiple installations over time), excluding the charge point. I am yet to begin the process but my expectation is I will not have success until others own EV's. Ironically there are policies in place aiming, by 2030, to ensure all new passenger vehicles in the Netherlands comply with zero-emissions. That would be a great incentive for apartments owners to go ahead, if EV's were not so expensive, as anecdotally, up to 90% of EV sales here are via business lease. Note also - I cannot park on the street to utilise the plentiful Govt installed AC chargepoints overnight as I have to pay for parking, making it uneconomic and only those without private car parks available to them are able to secure street permits (which have a 2 year wait in Netherland cities). I therefore charge at fastchargers for my work travel which is extensive, so I spend a lot of time at highway charging locations. The issues of 'electrifying the curb' extend into murky waters when private infrastructure requires funding and agreement.
Fascinating discussion, especially all the ways these different levels of government are interacting with each other. Also, selfishly, as a garage-less EV driver, the white paper and the concept of street light charging is truly exhilarating! (And less selfishly, I really do hope we sell more bikes than cars...)
I've had an EV for 16 years and have lived in our current home with no garage for 13 years. It's fine. We have a level 2 charger beside the driveway that we use and coils up on a hanger like a hose, and our neighbor across the street also has an outdoor charger for their EV. There is no issue at all.
I do think Level 1 charging is underrated. It can add ~50 miles overnight- more than most people drive daily. Similarly level 2 charging doesn’t need to be nightly for most. I wonder if a better culture and system of unplugging other cars would help? Overnight charging doesn’t work well if you’re supposed to unplug at midnight after plugging in at 6pm. We need a culture of “unplug me when I am full”
Speaking of good urbanism David, I really wish you would do an episode on how remote work/telecommuting helps solves many of the issues. Often portrayed as a hangover from COVID by the media, it takes many cars off the road and lessen the demand for transit.
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record but if you design a super efficient car that has a small battery and can be charged by the sun or overnight with a regular 15 amp outlet or quick to fast charge, you solve many of these problems. The Aptera idea solves a lot of these issues. It's not for everyone but it would be perfect for a large minority of the population.
The guest never came out and said it but it definitely sounds like an implied sentiment that landlords will never install charging without some kind of mandate to do so--it just doesn't make financial sense. Which seems both true and disappointing. Unless there's some way for landlords to make extra money off EV chargers which if it is a business model, isn't one that's really penetrated my area yet.
Somewhat agree. I think landlords install amenities to attract desirable tenants. My community just spent a boatload of money. It's hard to explain much of it, other than to keep the place looking really nice to prospective tenants. I think it's just a lack of imagination and forward thinking as to why they chose to do what they did, vs. putting in a couple of EV chargers. We already have several tenants driving EVs, and there are a lot of premium sheltered parking spaces that go unused (not rented). Yet another cases of "we do it the way we've always done it", IMO.
Refer to my earlier comment re EU approaches, where the key has been for local Govt to incentivise demand while Federal mandate the supply side shift. Easier said in a place like the Netherlands vs US.
Yes. Here in the US, we have a massive herd of zombies fighting the fight against the "government that wants to control you!!". So, prohibitions and mandates are just political stupidity until that trance is somehow broken.
Grateful for the open source, Linux interface and in the concrete, bollards, light pole access. As an EV enthusiast with home garage charger, trying to encourage a skeptical and worried partner who plots out all the charging access ahead of traveling, I’m glad Mr Klein explained why the charging infrastructure looks the way it does, and what it could be like and how we can evangelize electric transportation. And DR Volts, appreciate your keeping these public servants focused.
It's not true that the EV charging problem is solved in Europe. On the positive side, in The Netherlands at least, there are many curb side AC chargers and DC fast chargers and they lead uptake of EV's in Western EU. Also, financial incentives exist for Owners Associations (VvE's) for EV infrastructure implementation. The subsidy amount for initial independent site assessments is 75% of the consultancy costs (including VAT), with a maximum of € 1,500. It's only €100 subsidy per parking space for the owner of the parking space but better than nothing. On the negative side, the issue in my case, is being the first EV owner in an apartment block (of over 30 owners) and requiring the approval of a quorum to go ahead with installing EV ready infrastructure (the only way it would be cost effective rather than multiple installations over time), excluding the charge point. I am yet to begin the process but my expectation is I will not have success until others own EV's. Ironically there are policies in place aiming, by 2030, to ensure all new passenger vehicles in the Netherlands comply with zero-emissions. That would be a great incentive for apartments owners to go ahead, if EV's were not so expensive, as anecdotally, up to 90% of EV sales here are via business lease. Note also - I cannot park on the street to utilise the plentiful Govt installed AC chargepoints overnight as I have to pay for parking, making it uneconomic and only those without private car parks available to them are able to secure street permits (which have a 2 year wait in Netherland cities). I therefore charge at fastchargers for my work travel which is extensive, so I spend a lot of time at highway charging locations. The issues of 'electrifying the curb' extend into murky waters when private infrastructure requires funding and agreement.
Fascinating discussion, especially all the ways these different levels of government are interacting with each other. Also, selfishly, as a garage-less EV driver, the white paper and the concept of street light charging is truly exhilarating! (And less selfishly, I really do hope we sell more bikes than cars...)
I've had an EV for 16 years and have lived in our current home with no garage for 13 years. It's fine. We have a level 2 charger beside the driveway that we use and coils up on a hanger like a hose, and our neighbor across the street also has an outdoor charger for their EV. There is no issue at all.
I do think Level 1 charging is underrated. It can add ~50 miles overnight- more than most people drive daily. Similarly level 2 charging doesn’t need to be nightly for most. I wonder if a better culture and system of unplugging other cars would help? Overnight charging doesn’t work well if you’re supposed to unplug at midnight after plugging in at 6pm. We need a culture of “unplug me when I am full”
Speaking of good urbanism David, I really wish you would do an episode on how remote work/telecommuting helps solves many of the issues. Often portrayed as a hangover from COVID by the media, it takes many cars off the road and lessen the demand for transit.
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record but if you design a super efficient car that has a small battery and can be charged by the sun or overnight with a regular 15 amp outlet or quick to fast charge, you solve many of these problems. The Aptera idea solves a lot of these issues. It's not for everyone but it would be perfect for a large minority of the population.
The guest never came out and said it but it definitely sounds like an implied sentiment that landlords will never install charging without some kind of mandate to do so--it just doesn't make financial sense. Which seems both true and disappointing. Unless there's some way for landlords to make extra money off EV chargers which if it is a business model, isn't one that's really penetrated my area yet.
same for condo owners
Somewhat agree. I think landlords install amenities to attract desirable tenants. My community just spent a boatload of money. It's hard to explain much of it, other than to keep the place looking really nice to prospective tenants. I think it's just a lack of imagination and forward thinking as to why they chose to do what they did, vs. putting in a couple of EV chargers. We already have several tenants driving EVs, and there are a lot of premium sheltered parking spaces that go unused (not rented). Yet another cases of "we do it the way we've always done it", IMO.
Refer to my earlier comment re EU approaches, where the key has been for local Govt to incentivise demand while Federal mandate the supply side shift. Easier said in a place like the Netherlands vs US.
Yes. Here in the US, we have a massive herd of zombies fighting the fight against the "government that wants to control you!!". So, prohibitions and mandates are just political stupidity until that trance is somehow broken.
Grateful for the open source, Linux interface and in the concrete, bollards, light pole access. As an EV enthusiast with home garage charger, trying to encourage a skeptical and worried partner who plots out all the charging access ahead of traveling, I’m glad Mr Klein explained why the charging infrastructure looks the way it does, and what it could be like and how we can evangelize electric transportation. And DR Volts, appreciate your keeping these public servants focused.