"And we felt slightly guilty about buying a new car."
I really hope we can shift our sentiment on this thought when it comes to EVs. The Venn Diagram of the circle of people who don't want to buy new because of the environmental impact significantly overlaps the other circle of people who would even consider EVs right now.
The harsh truth, though, is there are no companies manufacturing used cars.
In order for someone of lower economic means to be able to get a used EV several years from now, someone of higher economic means has to buy new now. Every individual and family will have to run the math on what vehicle fits their budget, so it's not my place to judge their decisions. However, we shouldn't saddle ourselves with so much guilt over buying new if that means that someone with a lower income can participate in an EV future later on.
That's the exact reason why we leased our first EV, a new 2012 Nissan Leaf. We wanted to feed a car into the hopper where it could work it way down the chain of ownership and be a used car for someone else. Ditto for our 2014 Nissan Leaf and 2016 Kia Soul EV.
EV's will take somewhat longer to move into used given that replacing a battery makes them basically new again for the original owner. Leasing will mitigate this somewhat though.
Congratulations, sir! I welcome you to the community of EV owners who don't want to make a statement or drag race ICE vehicles. What we want is "just a car", but electric! I think these kinds of cars are the future more than high-end Teslas, Polestars, and Rivians. Those cars will always have their place, and to some degree they got the market moving (Tesla in particular), but the vast majority of EVs sold going forward will be "just cars" (IMO).
This is why EVs are going to be such a game changer. You can replace the battery of an old, but otherwise working, car and basically get a new car out of it.
Also perhaps may exacerbate the problem of lack of used cars...
I know dealers initially resisted selling EVs because (a) they didn't understand them, and (b) EVs don't require a lot of profitable service. I presume at least some dealers have now seen the handwriting on the wall, and are adjusting their businesses accordingly. What's been your experience?
Haven't dealt with a dealer in 10 years (older cars) but my mechanic is been consistent in, ahem, running down battery cars ;-) Mechanics are in a for a world of hurt even more than dealers I think.
TV show 'Motorweek' (Maryland PBS) had an episode about a local mechanic that has shifted it's business to almost 100% battery rebuild/refurb. Not sure if that will work for most mechanic shops but it's something at least.
Eh, there's enough other stuff that changes that I expect we'll still see the type of person (like me) that tends to buy new, still trade in. Like, I got a very early unit of the M3 Performance, but I specifically declined to bother with the fanciest version of the sensor package and autopilot computer. I figure in a decade I'll trade it in, and at _that_ point, the autopilot stuff will actually be mature enough that I want it. (The features already available are pretty useful -- things like adaptive cruise control, and being able to use the app to just pull the car out of a tight spot rather than needing to squeeze in beside it if some jerk parked too close.)
My story if you don't mind... I took my 2002 Accord to the shop for inspection June, 2021. My (very long-time) mechanic said, "You don't have to worry, your car is still safe to drive... (heart palpitations on my end!) but you're going to need a new rear axle among other things. Perhaps it's time for a new car?"
I told him I'd been wanting to get an EV for a while, did he have any thoughts.
He said a few of his customers have Leaf's, but he doesn't recommend them. A few also have Bolt's; they're... - "utilitarian?" I offered; "yes, that's a good word he replied."
My response was about there being so many new EVs about to come on the market, & not wanting to get locked in before they're out. He suggested, assuming I could afford it (I could), I lease a Tesla & reassess in 3 years, so that's what I did. I test drove a Model 3 the next weekend & plunked down $100 to order one (before the price went up again!).
I got an all-wheel drive, long range, primarily for the certainty of not getting stuck if a drive motor failed.
I like it well enough, but admit I'm not enamored with Elon's dictated all Tesla all the time for everything. Since I can't buy it at the end of the lease - I guess Tesla sees a hot used market down the road - there's a very good chance I'll buy someone else's come August, 2024.
As I'm out East (Philly area), I sure hope Link or something similar is up and running here by then!
Wow, Tesla won't *let* you buy it off lease? Chalk up another reason I won't be buying a Tesla. I generally buy new outright, but that level of micro control seems on brand for him
I leased a Hyundai Kona EV last year and I gotta say, one year in, it's a complete game changer for me. I avoided Tesla because I personally believe it will end up being the Betamax of the EV world in about 3 years. Mustang was nice but the delivery date just didn't work for me. I find the Kona to be a lot like your description of the Bolt, but maybe a little larger and newer. Because it's basically an EV version of their existing model, it doesn't call attention to itself. I've driven it on several road trips and it's been fantastic. When the lease is up on this the technology will have improved significantly and I will remain with some kind of EV. The Spawn just passed his test for his learners' permit and we're thinking about a used Leaf for him. Welcome to the world of EV owners! It's fun on this side of the fence, I promise.
Hey welcome to the Bolt club that you joined whether you wanted to or not. Only recommendation I have for you is to get a wireless CarPlay/android auto adapter for the car from Amazon and then never use the built in interface again. You can just plug the phone in and use it that way for no extra charge, but I’ve grown to love the wireless option. Both options are leagues better than the mediocre built in UI for Bluetooth operation.
David - I have one of these new in box that I was given, if you want it. Not sure if you have a PO Box or something similar to protect address, but I’d be happy to mail it to you at no charge. I’m not using it.
If you’re interested, let me know and I’ll email you directly to coordinate.
Plug in with USB and it’ll carplay/android auto (unless the setting is disabled). Sounds like there’s also a wireless adapter option? Wireless is nice, but USB gets the job done for me.
I am an original owner of a 2017 Bolt Premier, and it is my favorite owned car ever.
I also don't mind, and mildly prefer the spartan utility of an econo-box hatchback, which is surprisingly big (e.g. I can carry 1 cy of bagged mulch in it).
I think that your new battery will come sooner than later. Mine was replaced in late December, and true to form was done in 1 day (had to get a revisit for missed re-programming that cause my car not to know about its new bigger battery). I agree wholeheartedly, the new battery put this car on a whole new timeline, and I'll own it for many years to come.
I hope you love your car as much as I do.
Do remind Mrs. Volts not to drink coffee while riding in the Bolt - it has a suspension that will make her aware of imperfections in bumpy roads.
Did you ever get your new battery? I'm currently looking to buy a used Bolt, and ideally would buy one that has already had it's battery replaced. Do those exist?
If you see a warranty for “Bolt battery limited warranty” then the warranty date minus 8 years is the battery replacement date and the warranty mileage minus 100,000 is the mileage when the battery was replaced!
I got a 5 years old car with a 1 year old battery for $15K after the used EV tax credit. Complete steal.
David, based on this particular pod, my partner Torah followed your example, used Link (the car-buying service) a few months after your experience, and got a used Bolt which she came to love very much. Last Thursday, she was struck by a Tesla going who knows how many multiples over the speed limit, which sheered off the front of her vehicle. But airbags come out of everywhere, including bags for her legs (!) and she walked away with only bruising. Yay Bolt!
Re: “Bluetooth interface with phones is somewhat janky,” try USB to get carplay or android auto going!
Re: wireless charging, there is an option for wireless charging that my 2017 Bolt Premier has, but I think it only works with some android devices. If you’re an Android user, it might work for you if you have it. I think its the thin phone-width sleeve pocket between the shifter and arm rest.
The last car I bought, I made a conscious decision to skip the bells and whistles in favor of something simple and reliable. That was over 20 years ago, and my Saturn is still going strong (we don't drive a lot).
My kid is delighted with his Bolt, and when his lease is up, if he doesn't buy it, I think I will (especially with the new battery).
As has been the case with your personal experience with household electrification versus gas and other energy frontiers, I'm glad you're sharing the challenges along with the cutting-edge advances in the electrify-everything and decarbonize-everything journeys. My colleague David Kerley just posted a related piece on the race for a $30k EV that kicks ICE's butt in performance as well. https://davidkerleyfullthrottle.bulletin.com/the-ev-you-can-afford/ It'll be fascinating to see if Honda and GM pull this off. (And yes, we're still driving our 2018 Prius and my dear departed Dad's 2000 Sienna when we need the space.)
"And we felt slightly guilty about buying a new car."
I really hope we can shift our sentiment on this thought when it comes to EVs. The Venn Diagram of the circle of people who don't want to buy new because of the environmental impact significantly overlaps the other circle of people who would even consider EVs right now.
The harsh truth, though, is there are no companies manufacturing used cars.
In order for someone of lower economic means to be able to get a used EV several years from now, someone of higher economic means has to buy new now. Every individual and family will have to run the math on what vehicle fits their budget, so it's not my place to judge their decisions. However, we shouldn't saddle ourselves with so much guilt over buying new if that means that someone with a lower income can participate in an EV future later on.
That's the exact reason why we leased our first EV, a new 2012 Nissan Leaf. We wanted to feed a car into the hopper where it could work it way down the chain of ownership and be a used car for someone else. Ditto for our 2014 Nissan Leaf and 2016 Kia Soul EV.
EV's will take somewhat longer to move into used given that replacing a battery makes them basically new again for the original owner. Leasing will mitigate this somewhat though.
Congratulations, sir! I welcome you to the community of EV owners who don't want to make a statement or drag race ICE vehicles. What we want is "just a car", but electric! I think these kinds of cars are the future more than high-end Teslas, Polestars, and Rivians. Those cars will always have their place, and to some degree they got the market moving (Tesla in particular), but the vast majority of EVs sold going forward will be "just cars" (IMO).
EVs: they all kill demand for gas at the same speed. I hope you get a lot of miles out of it.
This is why EVs are going to be such a game changer. You can replace the battery of an old, but otherwise working, car and basically get a new car out of it.
Also perhaps may exacerbate the problem of lack of used cars...
I know dealers initially resisted selling EVs because (a) they didn't understand them, and (b) EVs don't require a lot of profitable service. I presume at least some dealers have now seen the handwriting on the wall, and are adjusting their businesses accordingly. What's been your experience?
Haven't dealt with a dealer in 10 years (older cars) but my mechanic is been consistent in, ahem, running down battery cars ;-) Mechanics are in a for a world of hurt even more than dealers I think.
TV show 'Motorweek' (Maryland PBS) had an episode about a local mechanic that has shifted it's business to almost 100% battery rebuild/refurb. Not sure if that will work for most mechanic shops but it's something at least.
Eh, there's enough other stuff that changes that I expect we'll still see the type of person (like me) that tends to buy new, still trade in. Like, I got a very early unit of the M3 Performance, but I specifically declined to bother with the fanciest version of the sensor package and autopilot computer. I figure in a decade I'll trade it in, and at _that_ point, the autopilot stuff will actually be mature enough that I want it. (The features already available are pretty useful -- things like adaptive cruise control, and being able to use the app to just pull the car out of a tight spot rather than needing to squeeze in beside it if some jerk parked too close.)
Sure, but there will be an option for long haul owners like myself to, um, longer haul ownering ;-)
Where putting a new transmission/engine in would be major surgery in an older car...batteries are the definition of plug n play with no moving parts.
Congrats David.
My story if you don't mind... I took my 2002 Accord to the shop for inspection June, 2021. My (very long-time) mechanic said, "You don't have to worry, your car is still safe to drive... (heart palpitations on my end!) but you're going to need a new rear axle among other things. Perhaps it's time for a new car?"
I told him I'd been wanting to get an EV for a while, did he have any thoughts.
He said a few of his customers have Leaf's, but he doesn't recommend them. A few also have Bolt's; they're... - "utilitarian?" I offered; "yes, that's a good word he replied."
My response was about there being so many new EVs about to come on the market, & not wanting to get locked in before they're out. He suggested, assuming I could afford it (I could), I lease a Tesla & reassess in 3 years, so that's what I did. I test drove a Model 3 the next weekend & plunked down $100 to order one (before the price went up again!).
I got an all-wheel drive, long range, primarily for the certainty of not getting stuck if a drive motor failed.
I like it well enough, but admit I'm not enamored with Elon's dictated all Tesla all the time for everything. Since I can't buy it at the end of the lease - I guess Tesla sees a hot used market down the road - there's a very good chance I'll buy someone else's come August, 2024.
As I'm out East (Philly area), I sure hope Link or something similar is up and running here by then!
Wow, Tesla won't *let* you buy it off lease? Chalk up another reason I won't be buying a Tesla. I generally buy new outright, but that level of micro control seems on brand for him
I'm aware of others who have leased that have an option to buy, so I don't think it's a blanket policy, but it was the case for me.
I leased a Hyundai Kona EV last year and I gotta say, one year in, it's a complete game changer for me. I avoided Tesla because I personally believe it will end up being the Betamax of the EV world in about 3 years. Mustang was nice but the delivery date just didn't work for me. I find the Kona to be a lot like your description of the Bolt, but maybe a little larger and newer. Because it's basically an EV version of their existing model, it doesn't call attention to itself. I've driven it on several road trips and it's been fantastic. When the lease is up on this the technology will have improved significantly and I will remain with some kind of EV. The Spawn just passed his test for his learners' permit and we're thinking about a used Leaf for him. Welcome to the world of EV owners! It's fun on this side of the fence, I promise.
Hey welcome to the Bolt club that you joined whether you wanted to or not. Only recommendation I have for you is to get a wireless CarPlay/android auto adapter for the car from Amazon and then never use the built in interface again. You can just plug the phone in and use it that way for no extra charge, but I’ve grown to love the wireless option. Both options are leagues better than the mediocre built in UI for Bluetooth operation.
Whoa, I need to hear more about this, Tom. Can you link to an example?
Whoops I missed this notification. This is what I use and it works well enough for me. https://www.amazon.com/Carlinkit-Wireless-Activator-Volkswagen-Original/dp/B08P18TSCT/ref=asc_df_B08GLVW169/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475844097281&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2865929323196940384&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032968&hvtargid=pla-1029154118328&th=1
David - I have one of these new in box that I was given, if you want it. Not sure if you have a PO Box or something similar to protect address, but I’d be happy to mail it to you at no charge. I’m not using it.
If you’re interested, let me know and I’ll email you directly to coordinate.
Sure, email me! Plugging the phone in is a small but irksome hassle.
Plug in with USB and it’ll carplay/android auto (unless the setting is disabled). Sounds like there’s also a wireless adapter option? Wireless is nice, but USB gets the job done for me.
Congrats David!
I am an original owner of a 2017 Bolt Premier, and it is my favorite owned car ever.
I also don't mind, and mildly prefer the spartan utility of an econo-box hatchback, which is surprisingly big (e.g. I can carry 1 cy of bagged mulch in it).
I think that your new battery will come sooner than later. Mine was replaced in late December, and true to form was done in 1 day (had to get a revisit for missed re-programming that cause my car not to know about its new bigger battery). I agree wholeheartedly, the new battery put this car on a whole new timeline, and I'll own it for many years to come.
I hope you love your car as much as I do.
Do remind Mrs. Volts not to drink coffee while riding in the Bolt - it has a suspension that will make her aware of imperfections in bumpy roads.
Yeah, I got a ride in a friend's Bolt (not sure what model year) and the suspension is brutal for driving on Boston area roads during pothole season.
Great work, David!
Did you ever get your new battery? I'm currently looking to buy a used Bolt, and ideally would buy one that has already had it's battery replaced. Do those exist?
We did get our new battery! I assume *most* older Bolts have had their batteries replaced by now, though I honestly don't know how you'd verify that.
Thank you! I figured it out and bought a used bolt with a new battery (the dealer had no idea and a didn’t mention it as a selling point).
For anyone reading this, to check if a bolt has a new battery, put the vin and then the mileage into this website. https://experience.gm.com/ownercenter/recalls
If you see a warranty for “Bolt battery limited warranty” then the warranty date minus 8 years is the battery replacement date and the warranty mileage minus 100,000 is the mileage when the battery was replaced!
I got a 5 years old car with a 1 year old battery for $15K after the used EV tax credit. Complete steal.
David, based on this particular pod, my partner Torah followed your example, used Link (the car-buying service) a few months after your experience, and got a used Bolt which she came to love very much. Last Thursday, she was struck by a Tesla going who knows how many multiples over the speed limit, which sheered off the front of her vehicle. But airbags come out of everywhere, including bags for her legs (!) and she walked away with only bruising. Yay Bolt!
Sadly, the car is totaled. And it appears that Link is no longer in business. Do you have any recommendations for any similar services? Either way, just wanted to say, thank you very much for the Bolt recommendation; that car saved her life. Pic of her Bolt post accident: https://www.facebook.com/1160591641/posts/pfbid05bSKd34352c9k3VxHncHTv8dU5yLjq5W7CpRH6x2qCmPDJHw7ZgykXMERWS4xawzl/
Quick tips, though late:
Re: “Bluetooth interface with phones is somewhat janky,” try USB to get carplay or android auto going!
Re: wireless charging, there is an option for wireless charging that my 2017 Bolt Premier has, but I think it only works with some android devices. If you’re an Android user, it might work for you if you have it. I think its the thin phone-width sleeve pocket between the shifter and arm rest.
I know you just got your car but have you experienced broken public charging stations like this article talks about? https://www.wired.com/story/ev-charger-broken-us-electric-cars/?bxid=5cec28f624c17c4c64642303&cndid=53863360&esrc=bounceX&source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_DAILY_ZZ&utm_brand=wired&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_content=WIR_Daily_042622&utm_mailing=WIR_Daily_042622&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl&utm_term=P4
Ok, that's a really nice hack. I'm jealous I didn't think of it.
The last car I bought, I made a conscious decision to skip the bells and whistles in favor of something simple and reliable. That was over 20 years ago, and my Saturn is still going strong (we don't drive a lot).
My kid is delighted with his Bolt, and when his lease is up, if he doesn't buy it, I think I will (especially with the new battery).
As has been the case with your personal experience with household electrification versus gas and other energy frontiers, I'm glad you're sharing the challenges along with the cutting-edge advances in the electrify-everything and decarbonize-everything journeys. My colleague David Kerley just posted a related piece on the race for a $30k EV that kicks ICE's butt in performance as well. https://davidkerleyfullthrottle.bulletin.com/the-ev-you-can-afford/ It'll be fascinating to see if Honda and GM pull this off. (And yes, we're still driving our 2018 Prius and my dear departed Dad's 2000 Sienna when we need the space.)